Let's just go with a tribal jealous god, chosen people to be given the world for following priestly commands of annihilation of other nations, with the ultimate purpose of introducing a universal messiah and spiritual kingdom of love and peace that hasn't actually happened yet over 2,000 years later. Oh, and it's all plato's fault.
According to this African classicist, the Noble Lie was about bringing about Harmony in a society:
[QUOTE] "From what precedes, it appears that the two halves of the Noble Lie theory are linked: the first part aims to provide a mythical basis for fraternity among citizens, and the second part aims to prevent the significant threat of fratricide. Thus, the Noble Lie rests on a wishful image of mythical parents and children, ascribing godlike perception to parental figures, transparent natures to children, and easy relations between siblings." [END QUOTE]
The "Noble Lie" is the creation of a "Myth", in order to bring about friendliness and The Good in a society. What Plato is trying to do was solve the crisis's affecting the Greek city-states. You are not a classicist; at one point throughout classical antiquity, many, very many city-states fell into what is called "club-law". Greek city-states many-a-time were violence filled. Even Athens, at the time of Plato was filled with revolution, crimes and political violence. This is what Plato was trying to solve. Plato as a philodorian, like Socrates, were mesmerized by the peace and stability of Sparta (within the Dorians themselves); Plato's Republic is based on the Spartan Republic. ---THAT NEVER SUFFERED THE KYKLOS. Athens suffered, underwent three kykloi, three cycles of political violence/revolutions, in the turning of governments. Again, Sparta NEVER suffered a kyklos in its whole 800 year old history!
(Abstract: PLATO'S MYTH OF THE "NOBLE LIE" VIS-À-VIS SAINT AUGUSTINE'S IDEAL OF A STATESMAN
In this study, we show how, in the bid of fostering harmony and cohesion in the ideal city presented in his Republic, the ancient Greek philosopher Plato invented the so-called myth of the Noble Lie. It aims at convincing people of their common heritage.)
The Pledge of Allegiance created by a Christian socialist is a Noble Lie. The Oath to the Constitution is a Noble Lie. The preamble in the Constitution is a Noble Lie. Thomas Jefferson's "All men are created equal" is the Noble Lie.
America, or any liberal democracy, is a Lie and they need lies to continue.
I think you try too hard in assuming evil intent upon Plato; making him into a bogeyman. Plato set up not only Christianity but also Christendom!
(Abstract: There are many parallels between Sparta and Christendom. Plato is the link between them. There is a continuum between Sparta, Rome and Christendom. From there caste societies to their spiritual goals.)
Egalitarianism and "Freedom" is Gnosticism. Gnosticism is a heresy. Sparta was very anti-Gnostic; everything they did was "according to nature". Lycurgus commanded Arete for all citizens; that and training in philosophy is what made the 800 year old Spartan Republic successful. Only two people commanded Arete---Lycurgus and the writer of II Peter 1:5 "Supplement The Faith with Arete".
(1) "Plato is often identified by his critics as a father of totalitarianism"
It was Karl Popper, a Jew, that criticized Plato as a totalitarian. Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to Jews? Jews are natural Gnostics; they have a hatred of hierarchy, segregation (which is the caste/class system), which is all a hatred of Nature--which is the signature of Gnosticism. Jews are natural gnostics!
Psalm 1 states, "Blessed is the man that has not listened to the counsel of the ungodly". ---Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to the ungodly? Moreover, Deconstructionism, Criticism is the Jewish mentality; they are destroyers. Why should we be listening to them for? How do we have European culture and Western Civilization by taking the counsel of infidel, Jesus hating, Jews for?
Let's compare and contrast the the 800 year old Spartan Republic with that of the Jewish constructs of the Communist Jewish inspired Soviet Union that collapsed in 80 years or America, which is a religious construct based on Jewish Messianism, which is now a failed state genociding its own ethnic majority in under 230 years! What is the track record of the Jews?
Plutarch labels Sparta as a "complete philosophic state". The Doric Greeks of Laconia followed the dictates of Wisdom and Prudence. So following Wisdom and Prudence is totalitarianism? Why are we listening to Jews for? Is not Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch, Cicero all the foundations of Western Civilization? Yes.
(2) "In Plato’s writings we encounter a eugenics-based utopian caste system with despotic features..."
Plato is not writing a utopia---His Republic is based on the real, historical 800 year old Spartan Republic. His book The Republic was about him taking lessons from Sparta and applying, modifying those lessons to the situation of the Ionian Greeks. The Republic is to be seen as a Manual for creating a new city-state without stasis (political violence) and preventing the Kyklos.
Nature puts everything similar together. LXX Ecclesiasticus 13:15 "Every beast loveth his like, and every man loveth his neighbor. All flesh consorteth according to kind and a man will cleave to his like."
Caste is based on that ---"consorteth according to kind". It is found in the British agrarian saying, "Birds of a feather flock together" which all are based on the Law of Nature "Like to Like".
The family is a caste system! The Family is created on several Natural Laws--that of the law of Cosmos, "the combination of different but related things"; the law of righteousness "that all things are created to do one thing"; the law of harmony, "the combination of the high and low"; the law of the Rule of One is Best (the family is patriarchal; the father is the head of the household, i.e. a little monarch); the law of syncretism ---if all things are created to do one thing--THEN, to accomplish something, one must combine different things that have their own peculiar functions into one.
What you have in the family is a division of labor! Only the woman gives birth. Division of function. A male and a female, different but related, are joined together. The story is told that a person came up to Lycurgus and asked him why he didn't create a democracy. Lycurgus responded, "Begin, my friend, in your own family". Immediately one comprehends that a family cannot, it is impossible, for a family to operate on democracy!
The Family is a Caste system. Where did the Family come from? ---Why the Trinity created the Family. If the Trinity created a caste organism called the family, (macrocosm/microcosm---So below, so above), then the Trinity is a Caste society. The Angels are in a Caste society--Seraphim with Seraphim, Cherubim with Cherubim, Archangels with Archangels, Angels with Angels, Guardian Angels with Guardian Angels. All the domesticated animals except for the domestic cat, are herd animals and they all exhibit caste.
In European Culture, remember the Ionian Greeks orientalized--forgot their heritage, adopted Eastern values. Plato and Socrates as Ionian Greeks, went to the Doric Greeks who kept their tribal traditions and culture. The Spartan Republic acted efficiently because there was a caste system based on the division of function. Plato is upholding Traditional European culture when he defines Justice (Righteousness) as everyone keeping their station in Life. This is all wrapped up in the Arete of Sophrosyne! Temperance is NOT one of the main virtues---Sophrosyne is! St. Paul uses "sophros" over five times telling all stripes of Christians to be "sophros". Church Crisis Part IV; II Peter 1:5 "Supplement The Faith with Arete" The Virtue of Sophrosyne
Sophrosyne teaches to keep one's station in life! Plato who has Arete is only teaching this--recognizing that a state is a Macro-organism and since it is a higher life form, must have a division of function within it! Justice, in European culture, is everyone keeping their station--which is verbotten and ugly to the Jew. Who are we to follow? Our European forefathers and European values---or Semitic infidel cursed Jews and their value system?
[QUOTE]"In Europe prior to the sixteenth century, magic with its striving to manipulate nature and “create reality” by the will of the magus, had been a largely disreputable calling associated with decaying edifices, vermin and filthy sorcery. With the coming of the Renaissance the myth of a benevolent “white magic” and the scientism which would latter accompany it, grew within the bowels of the Church and Christendom at large, radiating from the city of Florence. It was not a coincidence that this ominous trend occurred in tandem with the Roman Catholic Council of Florence (1438-1439), which marked the beginning of a renewed growth in the influence of Platonism at the expense of Aristotelean beliefs, and ultimately of the gospel of Jesus.[END QUOTE]
This "striving to manipulate nature and "create reality" by the will of the magus" is derived from BOTH the Hermetic Tradition and the Kabbala that BOTH emerged as well in the Renaissance. Both of these source materials are Gnostic.
I refer you Dame France A. Yates who was the first to write about this.
"In 1964 she published Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition, an examination of Bruno, which came to be seen as her most significant publication. In this book, she emphasised the role of Hermeticism in Bruno's works, and the role that magic and mysticism played in Renaissance thinking. She wrote extensively on the occult or Neoplatonic philosophies of the Renaissance. Her books Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition (1964), The Art of Memory (1966), and The Rosicrucian Enlightenment (1972) are major works. She "dealt with traditions whose remoteness she could not eliminate, even while she made them more understandable."
Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition (1964)
The Art of Memory (1966)
Theatre of the World (1969)
The Rosicrucian Enlightenment (1972)
Astraea : The Imperial Theme in the Sixteenth Century (1975)
Shakespeare's Last Plays: A New Approach (1975)
The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age (1979)
Lull and Bruno (1982) Collected Essays I
Renaissance and Reform : The Italian Contribution (1983) Collected Essays II
Ideas and Ideals in the North European Renaissance (1984) Collected Essays III
Dame Yates makes it a point to show that this Hermetic Tradition is also the basis of movement and creation of the physical sciences, especially that of chemistry and physics. Sir Francis Bacon was part of this tradition. None of this is Western Culture or Civilization. All of this that Dame Yates outs is the foundation of both Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism.
Let's not forget that ALL the movers and shakers of the Renaissance, especially the Medici family, were all mentored by Jews.
Yes, there was neo-platonism, but this was married into the Gnostic texts of the Hermetic Tradition and the Jewish Messianism embedded in the Kabbala--all pushed by Jewish mentors!
Wheeler wrote: ""Plato is often identified by his critics as a father of totalitarianism" It was Karl Popper, a Jew, that criticized Plato as a totalitarian. Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to Jews? Jews are natural Gnostics; they have a hatred of hierarchy, segregation (which is the caste/class system), which is all a hatred of Nature--which is the signature of Gnosticism. Jews are natural gnostics!"
This will be you last comment on this Substack if you continue with your reprehensible Jew hate. According to you all Jews are gnostics. All Jews hate hierarchy and the class system. All Jews hate Nature. This is evidence-free ranting that adds nothing to the advancement of knowledge. It is crude agit-prop.
I've read idiotic, bigoted generalizations like yours a hundred times coming from Nazis, Neo-Nazis and other one-track minds. There are plenty of forums available online for ravings like yours. Go there and leave this space for people with open minds who wish to reason together and agree to disagree with civility and a decent respect for the humanity of others.
Wheeler wrote:
"Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to Jews?"
Is it really necessary to state the obvious? Yes, we should listen to Jews: Jesus Christ, His Mother Mary, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Theresa of Avila, St. Juan de la Cruz, Pfefferkorn, Baruch Spinoza, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Israel Shahak, Alfred Lilienthal, Alfred Kazan, the anti-Talmud Karaites, the anti-Zionist Satmar, Karl Popper, others too numerous to mention, and all Judaic persons of good will.
If you read "The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome" you would recognize my familiarity and engagement with the work of Frances Yates.
However, once again, you make ridiculous and unsupportable generalizations without citing evidence for your charges, as follows:
"Let's not forget that ALL the movers and shakers of the Renaissance, especially the Medici family, were all mentored by Jews. Yes, there was neo-platonism, but this was married into the Gnostic texts of the Hermetic Tradition and the Jewish Messianism embedded in the Kabbala--all pushed by Jewish mentors!" (End quote)
In the course of making this fantastic claim, which, if it were true, would involve numerous Judaic conspirators, you don't bother to name them by way of evidence. You have produced no corpus of facts, only obtuse declarations. So why should anyone believe you?
Apparently your theory is to be believed because you say so, an ipse dixit which is common to minds seized by an idée fixe, yours being "the Jews" as the source of all evil.
I wrote 723 pages concerning The Occult Renaissance. You can read that book, or not. In it I demonstrate with a long list of names and the offices they held, that the vast majority of the occultism of the early Renaissance derived from and was driven by gentiles. There were Judaic occultists. In terms of their influence over Catholics however, they were a minority with nowhere near the influence of a Plethon, a Bessarion or a Ficino.
As noted in my previous rejoinder, you continue to regurgitate hateful and baseless Right wing myths about Judaic people, using this comments forum as your platform. If you continue to exploit this outlet to advance your hate propaganda you will be blocked. To generate hatred for a group predicated on lies constitutes malice aforethought and will not be countenanced.
Mr Hoffman, I hope you refrain from blocking Wheeler and choose to engage with him instead. Seldom have I come across an anti-Semitic White Supremacist who is so well-read and articulate. His defense of the Noble Lie--by citing a paper by an African, no less!--is really quite fascinating, if not downright amusing. Especially when you throw in his obvious infatuation with the caste system. Who’d of thought the CCP and Aryan Brotherhood would have so much in common?
Wheeler does make some good points and brings up some interesting context, which I can appreciate. I’d plumb forgotten Plato was such a major Spartans fan, and Wheeler not only reminded me of that, he helped me understand why. I’d also forgotten about wanting to have a look at Frances Yates’ works; and, thanks to Wheeler, I’ll be getting along to doing that, as well. And I also appreciate Wheeler pointing out the significant role Hermeticism and its associated arts had to play in the development of the so-called hard sciences, and even during a period we like to refer to as “The Enlightenment”.
The influence of Hermetic or Neo Platonic mysticism on the development of the Western Tradition and thought has long been underrated, if not just flat out ignored. It’s good to see you bringing it up and discussing it. And it’s still very much alive, in one shape or form, as you point out. You only have to consider the Masons and their impact and influence on American history and politics to appreciate that. Now, I hope you won’t accuse me of being a Mason hater or some tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist for bringing that up. God forbid.
In spite of his obvious biases and prejudices, Wheeler isn’t your typical hateful ranting bigot. He does present some interesting information and an argument. Best to deal with its deficiencies and flaws, instead of ridiculing and suppressing it. Some us could use a good example of how to deal with such things intelligently and maturely. I sure know I could.
Let's just go with a tribal jealous god, chosen people to be given the world for following priestly commands of annihilation of other nations, with the ultimate purpose of introducing a universal messiah and spiritual kingdom of love and peace that hasn't actually happened yet over 2,000 years later. Oh, and it's all plato's fault.
According to this African classicist, the Noble Lie was about bringing about Harmony in a society:
[QUOTE] "From what precedes, it appears that the two halves of the Noble Lie theory are linked: the first part aims to provide a mythical basis for fraternity among citizens, and the second part aims to prevent the significant threat of fratricide. Thus, the Noble Lie rests on a wishful image of mythical parents and children, ascribing godlike perception to parental figures, transparent natures to children, and easy relations between siblings." [END QUOTE]
The "Noble Lie" is the creation of a "Myth", in order to bring about friendliness and The Good in a society. What Plato is trying to do was solve the crisis's affecting the Greek city-states. You are not a classicist; at one point throughout classical antiquity, many, very many city-states fell into what is called "club-law". Greek city-states many-a-time were violence filled. Even Athens, at the time of Plato was filled with revolution, crimes and political violence. This is what Plato was trying to solve. Plato as a philodorian, like Socrates, were mesmerized by the peace and stability of Sparta (within the Dorians themselves); Plato's Republic is based on the Spartan Republic. ---THAT NEVER SUFFERED THE KYKLOS. Athens suffered, underwent three kykloi, three cycles of political violence/revolutions, in the turning of governments. Again, Sparta NEVER suffered a kyklos in its whole 800 year old history!
Here is the African's paper: https://www.academia.edu/49490073/
(Abstract: PLATO'S MYTH OF THE "NOBLE LIE" VIS-À-VIS SAINT AUGUSTINE'S IDEAL OF A STATESMAN
In this study, we show how, in the bid of fostering harmony and cohesion in the ideal city presented in his Republic, the ancient Greek philosopher Plato invented the so-called myth of the Noble Lie. It aims at convincing people of their common heritage.)
The Pledge of Allegiance created by a Christian socialist is a Noble Lie. The Oath to the Constitution is a Noble Lie. The preamble in the Constitution is a Noble Lie. Thomas Jefferson's "All men are created equal" is the Noble Lie.
America, or any liberal democracy, is a Lie and they need lies to continue.
I think you try too hard in assuming evil intent upon Plato; making him into a bogeyman. Plato set up not only Christianity but also Christendom!
The True Parallel to Sparta: Christendom
https://www.academia.edu/9573424/
(Abstract: There are many parallels between Sparta and Christendom. Plato is the link between them. There is a continuum between Sparta, Rome and Christendom. From there caste societies to their spiritual goals.)
Egalitarianism and "Freedom" is Gnosticism. Gnosticism is a heresy. Sparta was very anti-Gnostic; everything they did was "according to nature". Lycurgus commanded Arete for all citizens; that and training in philosophy is what made the 800 year old Spartan Republic successful. Only two people commanded Arete---Lycurgus and the writer of II Peter 1:5 "Supplement The Faith with Arete".
Waw , God bless you Michael,, so comprehensive with striate pivot to the present "West" ,
(1) "Plato is often identified by his critics as a father of totalitarianism"
It was Karl Popper, a Jew, that criticized Plato as a totalitarian. Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to Jews? Jews are natural Gnostics; they have a hatred of hierarchy, segregation (which is the caste/class system), which is all a hatred of Nature--which is the signature of Gnosticism. Jews are natural gnostics!
Psalm 1 states, "Blessed is the man that has not listened to the counsel of the ungodly". ---Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to the ungodly? Moreover, Deconstructionism, Criticism is the Jewish mentality; they are destroyers. Why should we be listening to them for? How do we have European culture and Western Civilization by taking the counsel of infidel, Jesus hating, Jews for?
Let's compare and contrast the the 800 year old Spartan Republic with that of the Jewish constructs of the Communist Jewish inspired Soviet Union that collapsed in 80 years or America, which is a religious construct based on Jewish Messianism, which is now a failed state genociding its own ethnic majority in under 230 years! What is the track record of the Jews?
Plutarch labels Sparta as a "complete philosophic state". The Doric Greeks of Laconia followed the dictates of Wisdom and Prudence. So following Wisdom and Prudence is totalitarianism? Why are we listening to Jews for? Is not Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch, Cicero all the foundations of Western Civilization? Yes.
(2) "In Plato’s writings we encounter a eugenics-based utopian caste system with despotic features..."
Plato is not writing a utopia---His Republic is based on the real, historical 800 year old Spartan Republic. His book The Republic was about him taking lessons from Sparta and applying, modifying those lessons to the situation of the Ionian Greeks. The Republic is to be seen as a Manual for creating a new city-state without stasis (political violence) and preventing the Kyklos.
Nature puts everything similar together. LXX Ecclesiasticus 13:15 "Every beast loveth his like, and every man loveth his neighbor. All flesh consorteth according to kind and a man will cleave to his like."
Caste is based on that ---"consorteth according to kind". It is found in the British agrarian saying, "Birds of a feather flock together" which all are based on the Law of Nature "Like to Like".
The family is a caste system! The Family is created on several Natural Laws--that of the law of Cosmos, "the combination of different but related things"; the law of righteousness "that all things are created to do one thing"; the law of harmony, "the combination of the high and low"; the law of the Rule of One is Best (the family is patriarchal; the father is the head of the household, i.e. a little monarch); the law of syncretism ---if all things are created to do one thing--THEN, to accomplish something, one must combine different things that have their own peculiar functions into one.
What you have in the family is a division of labor! Only the woman gives birth. Division of function. A male and a female, different but related, are joined together. The story is told that a person came up to Lycurgus and asked him why he didn't create a democracy. Lycurgus responded, "Begin, my friend, in your own family". Immediately one comprehends that a family cannot, it is impossible, for a family to operate on democracy!
The Family is a Caste system. Where did the Family come from? ---Why the Trinity created the Family. If the Trinity created a caste organism called the family, (macrocosm/microcosm---So below, so above), then the Trinity is a Caste society. The Angels are in a Caste society--Seraphim with Seraphim, Cherubim with Cherubim, Archangels with Archangels, Angels with Angels, Guardian Angels with Guardian Angels. All the domesticated animals except for the domestic cat, are herd animals and they all exhibit caste.
In European Culture, remember the Ionian Greeks orientalized--forgot their heritage, adopted Eastern values. Plato and Socrates as Ionian Greeks, went to the Doric Greeks who kept their tribal traditions and culture. The Spartan Republic acted efficiently because there was a caste system based on the division of function. Plato is upholding Traditional European culture when he defines Justice (Righteousness) as everyone keeping their station in Life. This is all wrapped up in the Arete of Sophrosyne! Temperance is NOT one of the main virtues---Sophrosyne is! St. Paul uses "sophros" over five times telling all stripes of Christians to be "sophros". Church Crisis Part IV; II Peter 1:5 "Supplement The Faith with Arete" The Virtue of Sophrosyne
https://www.academia.edu/49983004/
Sophrosyne teaches to keep one's station in life! Plato who has Arete is only teaching this--recognizing that a state is a Macro-organism and since it is a higher life form, must have a division of function within it! Justice, in European culture, is everyone keeping their station--which is verbotten and ugly to the Jew. Who are we to follow? Our European forefathers and European values---or Semitic infidel cursed Jews and their value system?
[QUOTE]"In Europe prior to the sixteenth century, magic with its striving to manipulate nature and “create reality” by the will of the magus, had been a largely disreputable calling associated with decaying edifices, vermin and filthy sorcery. With the coming of the Renaissance the myth of a benevolent “white magic” and the scientism which would latter accompany it, grew within the bowels of the Church and Christendom at large, radiating from the city of Florence. It was not a coincidence that this ominous trend occurred in tandem with the Roman Catholic Council of Florence (1438-1439), which marked the beginning of a renewed growth in the influence of Platonism at the expense of Aristotelean beliefs, and ultimately of the gospel of Jesus.[END QUOTE]
This "striving to manipulate nature and "create reality" by the will of the magus" is derived from BOTH the Hermetic Tradition and the Kabbala that BOTH emerged as well in the Renaissance. Both of these source materials are Gnostic.
I refer you Dame France A. Yates who was the first to write about this.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Frances_Yates
"In 1964 she published Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition, an examination of Bruno, which came to be seen as her most significant publication. In this book, she emphasised the role of Hermeticism in Bruno's works, and the role that magic and mysticism played in Renaissance thinking. She wrote extensively on the occult or Neoplatonic philosophies of the Renaissance. Her books Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition (1964), The Art of Memory (1966), and The Rosicrucian Enlightenment (1972) are major works. She "dealt with traditions whose remoteness she could not eliminate, even while she made them more understandable."
Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition (1964)
The Art of Memory (1966)
Theatre of the World (1969)
The Rosicrucian Enlightenment (1972)
Astraea : The Imperial Theme in the Sixteenth Century (1975)
Shakespeare's Last Plays: A New Approach (1975)
The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age (1979)
Lull and Bruno (1982) Collected Essays I
Renaissance and Reform : The Italian Contribution (1983) Collected Essays II
Ideas and Ideals in the North European Renaissance (1984) Collected Essays III
Dame Yates makes it a point to show that this Hermetic Tradition is also the basis of movement and creation of the physical sciences, especially that of chemistry and physics. Sir Francis Bacon was part of this tradition. None of this is Western Culture or Civilization. All of this that Dame Yates outs is the foundation of both Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism.
Let's not forget that ALL the movers and shakers of the Renaissance, especially the Medici family, were all mentored by Jews.
Yes, there was neo-platonism, but this was married into the Gnostic texts of the Hermetic Tradition and the Jewish Messianism embedded in the Kabbala--all pushed by Jewish mentors!
Wheeler wrote: ""Plato is often identified by his critics as a father of totalitarianism" It was Karl Popper, a Jew, that criticized Plato as a totalitarian. Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to Jews? Jews are natural Gnostics; they have a hatred of hierarchy, segregation (which is the caste/class system), which is all a hatred of Nature--which is the signature of Gnosticism. Jews are natural gnostics!"
This will be you last comment on this Substack if you continue with your reprehensible Jew hate. According to you all Jews are gnostics. All Jews hate hierarchy and the class system. All Jews hate Nature. This is evidence-free ranting that adds nothing to the advancement of knowledge. It is crude agit-prop.
I've read idiotic, bigoted generalizations like yours a hundred times coming from Nazis, Neo-Nazis and other one-track minds. There are plenty of forums available online for ravings like yours. Go there and leave this space for people with open minds who wish to reason together and agree to disagree with civility and a decent respect for the humanity of others.
Wheeler wrote:
"Should we as Europeans and Christians listen to Jews?"
Is it really necessary to state the obvious? Yes, we should listen to Jews: Jesus Christ, His Mother Mary, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Theresa of Avila, St. Juan de la Cruz, Pfefferkorn, Baruch Spinoza, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Israel Shahak, Alfred Lilienthal, Alfred Kazan, the anti-Talmud Karaites, the anti-Zionist Satmar, Karl Popper, others too numerous to mention, and all Judaic persons of good will.
"Jew hate"---ought to be censorship and a law against it, eh? Unsubbed.
Another fantastic article.
To Wheeler
If you read "The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome" you would recognize my familiarity and engagement with the work of Frances Yates.
However, once again, you make ridiculous and unsupportable generalizations without citing evidence for your charges, as follows:
"Let's not forget that ALL the movers and shakers of the Renaissance, especially the Medici family, were all mentored by Jews. Yes, there was neo-platonism, but this was married into the Gnostic texts of the Hermetic Tradition and the Jewish Messianism embedded in the Kabbala--all pushed by Jewish mentors!" (End quote)
In the course of making this fantastic claim, which, if it were true, would involve numerous Judaic conspirators, you don't bother to name them by way of evidence. You have produced no corpus of facts, only obtuse declarations. So why should anyone believe you?
Apparently your theory is to be believed because you say so, an ipse dixit which is common to minds seized by an idée fixe, yours being "the Jews" as the source of all evil.
I wrote 723 pages concerning The Occult Renaissance. You can read that book, or not. In it I demonstrate with a long list of names and the offices they held, that the vast majority of the occultism of the early Renaissance derived from and was driven by gentiles. There were Judaic occultists. In terms of their influence over Catholics however, they were a minority with nowhere near the influence of a Plethon, a Bessarion or a Ficino.
As noted in my previous rejoinder, you continue to regurgitate hateful and baseless Right wing myths about Judaic people, using this comments forum as your platform. If you continue to exploit this outlet to advance your hate propaganda you will be blocked. To generate hatred for a group predicated on lies constitutes malice aforethought and will not be countenanced.
Mr Hoffman, I hope you refrain from blocking Wheeler and choose to engage with him instead. Seldom have I come across an anti-Semitic White Supremacist who is so well-read and articulate. His defense of the Noble Lie--by citing a paper by an African, no less!--is really quite fascinating, if not downright amusing. Especially when you throw in his obvious infatuation with the caste system. Who’d of thought the CCP and Aryan Brotherhood would have so much in common?
Wheeler does make some good points and brings up some interesting context, which I can appreciate. I’d plumb forgotten Plato was such a major Spartans fan, and Wheeler not only reminded me of that, he helped me understand why. I’d also forgotten about wanting to have a look at Frances Yates’ works; and, thanks to Wheeler, I’ll be getting along to doing that, as well. And I also appreciate Wheeler pointing out the significant role Hermeticism and its associated arts had to play in the development of the so-called hard sciences, and even during a period we like to refer to as “The Enlightenment”.
The influence of Hermetic or Neo Platonic mysticism on the development of the Western Tradition and thought has long been underrated, if not just flat out ignored. It’s good to see you bringing it up and discussing it. And it’s still very much alive, in one shape or form, as you point out. You only have to consider the Masons and their impact and influence on American history and politics to appreciate that. Now, I hope you won’t accuse me of being a Mason hater or some tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist for bringing that up. God forbid.
In spite of his obvious biases and prejudices, Wheeler isn’t your typical hateful ranting bigot. He does present some interesting information and an argument. Best to deal with its deficiencies and flaws, instead of ridiculing and suppressing it. Some us could use a good example of how to deal with such things intelligently and maturely. I sure know I could.